Esther J. Hamori is an Associate Professor of Hebrew Bible at Union Theological Seminary. She has written a very nice piece on the diversity of voices in scripture. An honest reader of the Bible will find arguments for all kinds of positions on all kinds of topics. This diversity of voices is exactly what you would want in a book teaching you how to think, not what to think. The Bible is not very good at teaching human beings how to all think the same thing, but it is very good at evoking conversations that can put our disagreements together for the common good, that is, if we are willing to stop using it as a conversation stopper.
“Some readers will find the acknowledgement of a multiplicity of voices in the Bible objectionable. But these are texts written by human beings with human viewpoints. Attributing perfection to them is idolatry, and God-as-ventriloquist is bad theology. So given that the writers were human, wouldn’t we expect a better reflection of reality to come from the collection of a spectrum of voices than from any one person purporting to speak for everyone? ” -Ester Hamori
Hamori points out that Genesis begins with two contradictory versions of creation. From the very beginning we lose any honest hope of one correct viewpoint. Her point in a nutshell? “Religious diversity is an inherent part of the biblical tradition.” If God wanted zombie followers it would have been good to make the Bible consistent, but if God wanted a community of great minds, the Bible should be exactly what it is, a wild frenzied stockpile of varied, irreconcilable parables that trigger rich conversation in a community of meaning.
Your problem is unbelief. There are no contradictions in God’s holy word. When you use translations other than the King James Version, you will have contradictions. It is important for you to obey and to believe the Word of God. A multitude of translations will produce doubt and the Devil has effectively done his job. The so called counter dictions with the King James Bible are and have all been proven to have logical explanations.
Sinful man was not meant to correct God’s holy word, but God’s holy word was meant to correct sinful man. The reason why sinful man wants to look for ways to disprove or shed doubt on God’s word is because sinful man loves his sin and wants to justify it by discrediting the Bible. If this fits your reasoning, you are an unbeliever and will spend ALL eternity in the lake of fire in eternal pain and torment.
You must be born again. Ask Jesus Christ to save you and to cleanse you from all of your sin before it is too late. You will never regret it.
Mike,
The King James Version is a translation from the original Greek and Hebrew which I read. If you are ever willing to test out what you are saying you can find a Greek or Hebrew text. I realize you probably don’t read those languages, but you will look you will still be able to see what I am talking about. On the bottom of very page are all the variations on that one page. We do not have the original manuscript of the Bible. What we have are hundreds of Greek, and Hebrew manuscripts that disagree with one another on various points. I understand it is comforting to believe what you are saying but if you can muster ten minutes of honesty you will see it is untrue.
If you do that, write back, and we can talk about how the message is deeper than can be put in human language, so the contradictions actually help us go deeper into the meaning.
Jim
“This diversity of voices is exactly what you would want in a book teaching you how to think, not what to think” ARE YOU KIDDING ME????
When I read a book, I like to know what the author is trying to say. Not what everybody else thinks. Of course you’re going to have a bunch of weirdo’s come up with opinions from their unregenerate and sinful heart. “Diversity of voices” That sounds like devils and demons to me. When I read God’s Word I want to know what he and he alone has to say. God is not the author of confusion. Maybe if you pray and ask God to interpret his word to you, those voices might disappear.
Mike,
But let’s say you were reading someone you considered to be much greater than yourself. Let’s say Einstein. To look at his words and assume you knew at once exactly and literally what he meant would be arrogant madness. How much greater is the madness to look at scripture and believe you know literally what God means.
Jim
Translation from Greek and Hebrew into what??? The prefix TRANS (lation) means to take from ONE place and put into another. But, not into English? The universal language of the world for the last 400 years? You can’t be serious? Koine Greek is a dead language and Hebrew (with an exception for the sake of Israel) is dead too. English is the language that is alive. You speak it exclusively . If you think it’s not given by inspiration of God and ONLY the Greek and Hebrew are inspired you’re a hypocrite are not being faithful in giving your flock God’s words. (the “non-inspired” English instead of the “inspired” Greek and Hebrew)
Nebuchadnezzar spent 7 years as a beast to learn this lesson:
Daniel 4:25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
God gave the rule to England, that’s historical FACT, the same country that gave us God’s word in the language that he had them spread around the world, English. Right after (coincidentally) the ending of the dark ages. You can look back (hindsight is 20/20) and claim all that’s a coincidence, but you are being foolish to do so. I don’t believe in coincidences and neither should ANY born again child of God.
Mike,
You aren’t disagreeing with what I’m saying, you aren’t hearing it in the first place.
To say “God gave the rule to England” isn’t scriptural, you’re just making it up to try to win a debate. I’m simply telling you that the message is deeper and more wonderful than you will ever know if you approach scripture assuming that you understand it all literally with your little human brain. It is bigger than either of us. According to John God’s word is the intelligence that crafts the universe. How is that supposed to fit in any human head?
You aren’t glorifying God when you claim to have the one correct interpretation. That approach makes God smaller and yourself bigger. According to Paul, you and I are both looking through a dim mirror. We can only reach the higher wisdom, by loving. Christ has commanded us both to love our enemies. Why don’t we start with each other? We do not have to agree to be respectful.
Jim
John 14:13-14 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
HMMM? Do you think Jesus is a liar?? He promises that if ye shall ask anything in his name, he will do it.
Do you think he would like for me to have the proper understanding of his word or not? He is the author.
And do you think if I asked him in prayer of course, that he wouldn’t answer my prayer? He said he would in the Bible verse that I gave you above. Did you ever hear that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God? Your problem is still unbelief. If I studied physics I would consider Einstein’s theories, and other theories of other like minded men. Always keeping in mind that men can make mistakes and can be corrected, even Einstein made errors and so does the Pope by the way. God on the other hand does not make errors or mistakes and needs no corrections. He clearly reveals understanding to born again believers. You seem to have a basic problem with understanding simple truths from God’s Word. You need to be born again, not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible seed.
First of all Jim, I never called you me enemy, you did. Secondly, I never said I was bigger than God, You did. Thirdly, there is no debate. Your use of the phrase “my little brain” tells me that I hit a raw nerve with you. The Bible refers to this as being cut by a twoedged sword.
Hebrews 4:12-16 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
You are right though, my brain is finite. No argument there. But biblical belief comes with the heart not the brain.
Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
You talked about higher wisdom. Well, that is a good start for you. Here is what the Bible says about wisdom:
1 Corinthians 1:20-31 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
This shows me that you need to be born again. I say that in true love for your soul. I am not the enemy and I am not debating you. I’m just giving you what God revealed to me in his Word. Take it or leave it. The choice is yours.
Mike,
It’s not an attack to point out that every human being has a brain too small for the infinite, and therefore none of us speaks for God. I didn’t say you had called me “enemy.” I said Christ commands us to love even our enemies so we should start with one another. Obviously, you will twist whatever I say into something else, and just cut and paste verses that don’t really address what I have said, so should I pretend we are in a conversation? I might as well be talking to an answering machine.
I’ll make a deal with you, if you will speak respectfully in future comments I’ll post your comment and engage in this conversation. You can make the same points without this kind of bluster. I feel like I’m enabling very immature behavior here by pretending that we are in conversation. You are welcome to be a guest on my blog, but you have to act like one. I have studied the Bible for thirty years in the original languages. I am happy to treat you as a peer, but you have to reciprocate for this conversation to worth anyone’s time.
Jim
Jim, my intentions are not to be rude,or immature.I’ve been a born again Bible believer for over 30 years.
Spring of 1980 is when I trusted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior.Shortly after my salvation, I went to Bob Jones University in Greenville, SC. I too have studied Greek & Hebrew, Higher textural criticism. I’m not a newbe to these subjects that you mention in your blog posts.
My one and only question to you is, are you born again Bible Believing Christian? yes or no. Please post. Thank you, Mike
Mike,
Thank you for the respectful tone. And thank you for your 30 years of service to the church.
I would answer yes to both your questions, though I doubt we mean the same things by those words.
Jim
Mike,
Yes I am. Thank you for your kind response.
Jim
This correspondence is quite clear. Jim has never seen an inspired Bible one day in his life. Jim cannot hold a pure Bible to show anyone anything. Mike has faith in the pure Bible and believes it. Jim believes his opinion and that is his god.
James, just because I read the original texts does not make me a heretic. And just because you have only bothered to read the Bible in English does not make you inspired. It just gives you the euphoria of a closed belief system.
Jim,
You do not read the original texts. They have long been lost. It may not make you a heretic; it makes you a liar. The God who inspired the original text also inspired its preservation. Jim, if you were a king and inspired law, would you not preserve them from change? Of course, you would, but you think God didn’t; therefore, you think you are smarter than God. Your god inspired something and lost it. The only one who can tell the original meaning of the unseen original texts is Jim. That’s the euphoria of a real closed system.
The above article is a real laugher. The deluded mind refers to THE BIBLE, yet she uses many bibles. What ONE BIBLE is she referring to? If she would tell a person to go to THE CAR, would she refer to any car or ONE specific CAR? Esther wants the ability to believe what SHE WANTS and claim it comes from THE BIBLE. She is committing the usual sin of self-justification.
James,
How do you expect to lead people to Christ using such an un-Christlike tone? If you have a point to make to Ester you can do it with respectful tone. I’m tired of abusive comments. You are not her judge. If you want to post on this site, make your point politely. Insults are not logic. What I heard Ester saying was that she uses many translations of the Bible. Again, the original New Testament is in Greek. Every English text is a translation of that one text. I understand you believe the King James is the only correct translation and that it was a special revelation straight from God. But since it borrowed heavily from the earlier Wycliffe translation that is not possible. I hope you will respond, but remember if there is even one insult, I won’t post it.
People like Ester and Jim mock and disrespect the words of God, but they personally want respect because they think their opinions are worthy of respect. Jesus Christ is the true example in dealing with people like Ester. Let’s see what words Jesus used when he talked to the Pharisees in Matthew 23: hypocrites, vipers, fools, blind, sepulchres, serpents. Isn’t that quite a selection of loving and respectful words? Now, I didn’t insult anyone. I simply referred to the Christ-like behavior of the Lord Jesus and I try to emulate this behavior. The King James translators consulted several translations, which does not mean the “borrow” for it. Esther USES many translations, but gives no evidence of believing ANY of them. Jim, can a translation be inspired of God? What is your opinion of the Septuagint?
James,
And what were the Pharisees like? Were they liberals who were too lax about biblical interpretation as you accuse us of being? Or were they literalists who separated themselves from people they considered unclean and heretical? If you’ll do some research, you will discover that the Pharisees used scripture the same way you do, not to share the love of God, but to lay traps for other people. They are the worst possible examples you could use to appeal to a literal and purist understanding of Christianity. Pharisees were judgmental, and literalistic, and fundamentalist. They are given as examples of what not to be.
The Septuagint is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scripture with the additional books used now by the Catholic Church. Protestant translations are not based on the Septuaguint so I haven’t done much work in them. Why do you ask?
Jim
Jim,
You are right the Pharisees were fundamentalists, but they were not true Bible-believers. They placed tradition and opinion above the Scripture like you. You have no idea how I use the Scripture. I believe the Scripture and proclaim it on the street to lost sinners as Jesus Christ commanded in Luke 14:21-23. Do you?
Can a translation be inspired?
James
James,
Yes, I believe translations can be inspired. But many words have multiple meanings so translations always have to pick out which of those meanings were originally meant. Hebrew is an incredibly poetic language. Taking it literally can completely change the meaning. For example the rays of light coming out of Moses’ head were called “horns” in Hebrew. The word simply referred to the shape of the light, but still to this day in Europe you can find statues of Moses with horns.
Jim
Well glory, Jim believes a translation can be inspired. He got something right! Even a blind squirrel can find an acorn. The King James Bible is inspired totally and completely. It is absolutely the pure words of God. God promised to preserve His words (Psalm 12:6-7) and He did. The Lord Jesus Christ is called the Word of God (John 1:1) and He is pure today; therefore, there must be a pure Bible today and there is. Anyone who does not believe there is a pure Bible today is either calling God a liar or is a liar himself or herself. See the loving comment of Jesus in John 8:55.
James,
I’m sad for you that you don’t know how to make your case without insults and patronizing comments. I wish you realized that your insulting words refute you louder than any opponent possibly could. If you had a good argument, you could be patient and kind with someone you considered lost or mistaken. This method makes it look like you are afraid to hear what others have to say. When you impune the motives of people you have never met, when you don’t really respond to anything they say but just keep coming back with more questions, you might as well send up a flare saying that your faith isn’t strong enough to refute what they are saying with reason alone.
I agree that Jesus said some tough things, but you aren’t Jesus. I am happy to treat you as my brother in the faith, but you seem to think you are my judge and savior. That leaves us with nothing to talk about since I already have one of those.
You weren’t as abusive as usual, so I am grateful for that, but I want this site to be a place people can come to find respectful dialogue. I want people to be able to disagree, but I also owe it to my readers to screen out comments that are little more than vacuous ridicule. Since you only insulted me I let this comment through, even though I had said I wouldn’t. But you have also insulted my guests on the site. If you do it again I will push the “spam” button and you will be permanently blocked from the site. Please don’t do that so we can have a respectful dialogue and people can hear what you have to say.
Jim
Jim,
I humbly ask for your forgiveness. I forgot the word is a sharp sword and cuts into the heart of man. I know I am not Jesus so I suppose I shouldn’t use his sharpness of John 3:10-11 even though Nicodemus did come to Christ. I forgot that a wise man stated that open rebuke is BETTER than secret love (Proverbs 27:6). Since I am not Paul, I probably should not use his sharpness as stated in Titus 1:13. Since I am not Jeremiah, I should not use his methods of rebuke either (Jer. 23). Since I am not Amos, I should not use his method of reproof (Amos 7:16-17). I apologize I forgot that wise men will love the one who rebukes him (Proverbs 9:8).
I guess I can’t obey anything in the Bible because I am not a writer. I guess my opinion should be the ONLY authority in my life. I hope people will be respectful to my belief because it is mine. I hope people will understand that I can belittle and be disrespectful to the word of God and God Himself, but they should respect me because I love me. The Bible contradicts itself and I will never contradict myself. This is what I have learned. I do not need to thank God because I learned this idea from Jim.
James
James
Please listen for just one minute. I am not arguing against the Bible, I’m saying that, like all of us, you come to the scripture with a bias that then filters the texts that come to your mind. When we don’t realize we are bringing a filter to the text (a hermeneutic) we develop a smaller set of verses that become the lens through which we see the whole. For example, have you noticed you have been almost exclusively quoting from the Old Testament prophets and from the places where Jesus is arguing with the Pharisees? You then cast me as the Pharisee or the sinner, and cast yourself as the prophet, and then it seems to you that the verses that pop in your head represent the whole canon. After anyone makes those initial assumptions they would believe scripture is on their side. I’m not questioning scripture, I’m questioning whether you have prior biases. I would say we all do.
What do you do with the actual teaching of Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount that commanded us not to judge one another? What do you do with the places where Paul argues in Galatians that the letter of the law kills, but the spirit of the law gives life? What do you do with the scripture that says whoever has love has God? What do you do with those verses that say the fruits of the spirit are kindness gentleness and patience? I’m just asking you to show those fruits when you speak in God’s name.
Because you know so little about how the Bible was actually put together you cannot see that your arguments are circular. When I pointed out that the literalist and judgmental Pharisees were the negative example, you responded that they weren’t Bible believers. Do you realize that no one in the Bible was a “Bible believer” because, by definition, the Bible hadn’t been written yet? You are picking and choosing verses and you can’t see it because you use nothing to test your own discernment.
I can see you are intelligent, passionate and sincere. But the God we are calling people to is beyond your interpretation or mine. We cannot bully others into the Gospel. It is good to quote scripture literally, but it is better to have it written on your heart. We should each speak the truth as we see it humbly and respectfully to one another and let grace do it’s work. The universe is in bad shape if God needs either one of us as a body guard.
Jim,
I used Paul as an example for sharpness. Most of my witnessing is gentle, but there are times when sharpness is needed. Personal work is different than public work. Personal work with the common man or woman is different than religious leaders who cast doubt on what God says. Esther’s article was casting doubt on God’s word. Jeremiah 23 would be the words that Jeremiah would express to Esther. I have been nice compared to Jeremiah and the Lord Jesus in Matthew 23.
You asked what do I do with the teaching of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount. It’s simple. I believe it. The idea of judging in the sermon was addressed to a hypocrite (Matt. 7:5). Jesus also said to judge righteously in John 7:24. Paul said that spiritual people judge all things (1 Cor 2:15). Proper judgment is based upon the words of God (John 12:48).
In the matter of love one is supposed to love the Lord first. The second commandment never is to be placed above the first. What is the greatest way to demonstrate love? See John 14:23. Believe and obey the words of God. When Jesus asked Peter if he loved Him, Jesus response was to feed my sheep. The best way a pastor or professor demonstrates love for the Lord is feeding people the word of God rather than casting doubt upon it like Esther.
You don’t me from Adam. I am a preacher who has taught though the entire Bible verse-by-verse in the past 25 years. I have an earned doctorate in biblical studies. I believe the Book that I have in my hands to be the very words of God. From your testimony you do not. You claim to believe a set of papers that you have never seen and the copies that you claim to believe are not perfect.
A Bible-believer is someone who believes what God says. Job was a believer in the words of the Lord as was Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, etc. The difference between you and me is that I know my opinion means nothing and you think your opinion is your authority for life. I know that everyone has opinions and armpits and they usually both stink.
James
James,
Very respectful tone. Thank you. I don’t perceive myself to be just preaching my opinions. I believe all English translations to be grounded in the Greek and Hebrew from with they were translated. So I believe later translations should be understood in that original context. I’m not just making that up, that is the tradition I was taught in Seminary, and which I believe to be true. I understand you disagree. I don’t mind having my feet held to the fire so feel free to express where you you think I am misunderstanding the Bible. As long as the tone is respectful you can say anything you want.
Thanks for all the time you’ve put in trying to communicate.
Jim
Jim,
The many translations come from two basic sources: Israel to Antioch OR Israel to Alexandria. The first place the disciples were called Christians was in Antioch (Acts 11:26). The first “deacons” were associated with Antioch (Acts 6:7). The first missionaries stemmed from Antioch (Acts 13:1). The first occurrence of Alexandrian is resistance to men of Antioch (Acts 6:9). This is the two opposing forces in faith of the word of God.
What side do you choose? Antioch or Alexandria, Egypt.
James
James,
This is an example of how we see scripture differently. If I have understood you, you have found a story about Alexandrians doing something wrong in scripture and find that sufficient evidence to write off the early churches of North Africa. I know that supports your thesis that King James is the only true version of the Bible, but are you really ready to write off that many faithful people? The author of the Gospel of Mark is said to have been the first bishop at Alexandria. All of the earliest texts of the New Testament are papyri. You are obviously a good and intelligent person, but every comment you send seems to have a trap in it. Have I misunderstood you?
Jim
Jim,
There is a war over the words of God and there are two sides. If the Apostle Peter could be deceived when he was right next to Jesus Christ (Matthew 16:21-23), any “good” person can be deceived at anytime. Eve had pure motives when she was deceived. There are “good” people on both sides. Goodness is not the issue. I have experienced both sides. I haven’t found a “story.” I have studied the contrasts and fruit of both sides. I have observed a pattern from both sides. Authority is the issue.
Who or what is your final authority? Versions that claim to stem from manuscripts of Alexandria (Vaticanus & Sinaiticus) or a Version that stems from the manuscripts of Antioch (Syrian texts – Received Text). Many will claim the Bible is the final authority for all matters of faith and practice. Is that your claim?
James
I see that silence is the result to my simple question.
James,
I’m sorry, I meant to get back to your comment just to be polite and get closure, not because I thought you would be respectful. I can’t remember your question. I just remember I was trying to communicate with you, and you just kept laying word traps for me. You obviously don’t respect me, which is fine, but what would be my motive for wasting my time like that? Why do you think people owe it to you to sit there while you judge and ridicule them? I already have enough people in my life who’ve never really studied the biblical texts in the original languages, and believe their own simplistic certainty proves they are superior. I don’t even know you, why should I put up with your rudeness? As I’ve said before, as long as you don’t abuse my readers you are welcome to comment on this site. If you ever say anything kind or Christlike to me I will respond, until then, enjoy the silence.
Jim